Posted by Pico(IMM) on December 10, 1999 at 20:16:17:
In Reply to: EMPIRE posted by widowson on December 10, 1999 at 12:44:49:
> To begin with, this opinion is based upon the assumption that people agree with the following statements: > 1. Gang banging is not fun. It’s not fun for the victim and not much of a challenge for the gang bangers. It's not fun because you usually lose and because > 2. RP is necessary and should be a requirement form cabal membership. In fact, RP is more important than PK records RP is not more or less important than PKing. > For the above reasons, I put forward the argument that Empire is harmful to the RP and game balance of this Mud and should be done away with to improve the quality of this Mud. > Gangbanging will always be with us, unfortunately. I’m not demanding or suggesting that the player-base be forced to adopt Cadorite views on honorable combat, but these 6 on 1fights are just plain stupid and not fun. Empire does more to encourage this more than any other cabal. In fact, you’re considered to be wrong if you don’t gang-bang and viciously PK in such a fashion. You rail against gangbanging, yet write that > There is very little RP required for entry into Empire. While other cabals require knowledge of certain things and holding steadfast to certain ideologies all Empire requires of you is to be a greedy, vicious, self-centered little asshole. In other words, Empire promotes and nurtures the concept of the power-gaming asshole-Pker that we’ve all grown to hate and despise. You are essentially explaining that Empire > Other cabals have limits on membership and Pking for balance reasons. Imagine if Arbiters could always use guards and manacles or if Masters could scourge anyone they felt like, (and some argue that they can now). In Empire, anyone of any alignment, save Druids and Rangers, can join and it is quite justifiable to kill someone for no other reason than to refuse to take the Oath. There are very little balancing influences holding Empire back. The division into 4 sects and lip service to lawfulness have proven woefully inadequate in accomplishing any sort of restraint in the way that other cabals and evil cabals have, such as Shadow and The Cult. Also their relatively weak sect cabal powers, which had contributed towards balance, have gotten progressively better and now eclipse the laughingly pathetic powers of Dawn. Yes, other cabals have restrictions, but their Empire's power is, almost invariabley, proportional > Simply put, Empire is a cabal dedicated not to focusing and improving RP, but power gaming and Pking totally. Admittedly, Istendil came from Empire but I would argue that it was his time as anathema, where he proved he could PK by himself and Rped with the general playerbase, when he became known as well as he is. Empire is a cabal designed to offer a larger > Empire needs to be either done away with, have its standards raised, or need a good cabal of comparable power to balance it.
there's little chance of you winning. Everyone
wants a "fair" fight and at least a chance to
win.
PKing is inextricably intertwined with RPing
and thus one can not make one more important
than the other, any more than you can put your
character's ethos above or below its alignmnet.
> 3. The reason cabals have limits on Pking and membership is for game balance and RP reasons. Examples include Master’s enemy policy, Arbiters limit on special guard use, Rager’s non use of magic, Sylvan’s refusal to induct classes that can’t heal or help nature directly, and so on.
you don't want Honoristic fights? So I suppose
you are suggesting that some middle-ground be
found where the victim always has a chance, yet
the attackers are allowed to have some advantages?
How generous of you. Yes, it will always be with
us ... because it is a part of warfare. In
Into the Storm Gen. Fred Franks draws
an analogy to football (American): while it
might be a more exciting game for the home
team to win by a point, in war you want to
win 100-0 every time. Gang-banging will stay
because it is a way to come as close as possible
to ensuring that your team wins 100-0.
promotes a climate of evilness, which is its
intent. If you believe Empire institutionalizes
gang-banging, here is the reason: because why
would a group of rational evils not use it to
their advantage? The only possible reason I
could see is that someone who is (or believes)
they are much stronger than the others, doesn't
want to split the fruits of the fight. Empire
is set up to bring this kind of intrigue about
too.
powers are designed and granted to them on
the basis of these restrictions. So was Empire.
Are their powers greatly unbalancing? I'm not
aware of them being so, though we always have
our eyes open for that sort of thing. My belief
(and judging by your writing on gang-banging,
to some extent yours to) is that Empire's power
is derived more from it's number of members, rather
than powers. Lenin said "quantity has a quality
all its own," and this was one of the precepts
upon which Empire was established.
> Additionally, because of the overwhelming strength the Imperial juggernaut can potentially bring to bear and the tendency of it’s members to flee Thera when outnumbered, which is actually encouraged by it’s beliefs, Empire upsets game balance by being an “all-or-nothing” sort of power. Either all the items are in the throne room with Imperial heroes going on an unstoppable killing spree or the palace is empty with the Codex residing in the shrine of the Battleragers or Sylvans. The pendulum doesn’t swing back and forth like in other cabals; it flashes from one extreme to the other regardless of the skill of opposing cabals. Other cabals can never hope to match Empire in raw power, due to the disparity in membership requirements, and are reduced to waiting for Imperials to leave in order to recover their cabal item.
to the competency and presence of their leaders,
especially an Emperor -- as it should be because
of its design.
variety of RP opportunities to the populace
of Thera -- involving political intrigue,
backstabbing, and manipulation. I think it
does this fairly well.