Posted by Zargu on December 28, 1999 at 04:22:51:
In Reply to: Doesn't it seem that the Imms have been devaluing the hide skill? (text) posted by Thief on December 27, 1999 at 17:57:02:
> I've been thinking recently and I noticed that over time the implementations for cf have been slowly but surely making hide less and less useful. It came up when I discovered that not one kind of familiar can see hidden, but two. If not more. > Hide is perhaps the single most important/powerful defensive and offensive skill of the thief and assassin classes. But there are far more people seeing hidden now than when the classes were created. > It's hard to say if each step along the way is right or wrong, good or bad, but the end result where we are now seems too far, and with too many people being able to see hidden. > Here is where we are as far as who can see hidden, as far as I know. > Thieves and assassins. Obviously, this is the starting point. > I am sure I am forgeting more -- and of course there is at least one item that allows someone to see hidden. > But the point is, as I said, each individual increase seems small enough and without a large enough impact that it's not imbalancing. But lots of small things add up to a larger percentage. Instead of being a skill that basically only others of your guild or the other "stealth" guild can see through, hide becomes something that in fact alot of people can see right through. > As far as changes go, I'd make only one conjurer familiar see hidden. I'm not sure why multiples need to, instead I'd find something else special, something unique to each. > I don't know what other changes I'd make to the ones listed above since each has a perfectly valid independant reason, but even though all the "parts" are good, the "sum" seems off. > Hopefully some Imm's can address this, as well as the rest of you. As the other guy pointed out, what of detect invis?? The ragers where changed so that they could see invis even they dont have the head, that is fine for me, as the balance was all screwed up back then, but what of rangers then? Do empires complain over not being able to scout those? (well perhaps some) but nothing seriously... But sylvans have quite an advantage when they are able to hide when none of there enimies can see them... Even the ragers dont attack warders for some reason, even empire has been attacked as they travelled with mages, but yet the druids and shamans of the grove can travel protected from ragers... But well... The bottom line is that the balance is fine as it is now, but feel free to flame!
> All duergar. Ok, it's a racial thing, and when they were implemented there weren't really any others who could see hidden, so it didnt seem so big. Of course, there are alot more duergar running around now than there were back then, but ok.
> All arbiters. Sure, makes sense, they need to see hidden. But that even so it makes for more people who can see hidden.
> Transmuter utility form. I think two, though perhaps one, can see hidden. So, sure, that's not very many people. But again, it adds up.
> Conjurer familiars. There are at least two that I personally know of, perhaps more. Ok, so that's just a percentage of one class. Fine, seems not too much.
> Liches. Liches can see hidden from phylacteries. Sure, not very many liches, so why not? Not so many, not a big deal, right? But it adds up.