Posted by Umguy on December 17, 1999 at 13:11:40:
In Reply to: Going to clear this up a bit / Imms please comment - It's definitley not clear. posted by Merry on December 17, 1999 at 12:26:56:
> (This information was gathered and is based upon help files) ***Could you name the helpfile you got the drivel right below here from?*** > Going to clear this up about lawfulness. ***The stuff from here down I recognize from 'help paladin.'*** ALL Paladins, regardless of Religion are Chivalrous, Valorious, Virtuous, and Honorable. And most of all, MUST be lawful in order to keep their spells. ***But this doesn't say that lawful is equal to what you say it is, and so is pretty much not worth even bringing up, as it is pretty much known by everyone. There's nothing conclusive here other than Paladins must be Lawful. We knew that.*** > Regardless of the Paladins religion, he must obey the laws of his class, or he IS NOT that class. If it were a perfect system, Colaver would have some sort of words with the gods and such. Paladins are the most strict in terms of roleplay, and if he/she does not act accordingly, he is not a Paladin at all. ***Again, this is not from a helpfile, just your opinion.*** > Remember what 'society' means when you read this. Society is not one person, so the 'following his own code of laws and being lawful' is impossible. Society is, more or less, the average or norm, of the populace. ***This isn't from a help file either. It's something that I agree with, to some extent, though. Laws are formed by a society, and a society is greater than the whole. It is made up of the 'average' of the people that influence a person.*** > The only place where this argument could be flawed is if a religion is considered a Society, which I very much disagree with. ***This isn't from a helpfile either, but I agree with it. One religion does not a society make.*** > A lawful ethos binds one to a set structure of beliefs and methods - that ***This is from "help ethos" pretty much exactly. And I agree with it.*** > Lawful Good: An orderly, strong society with a well-organized government ***Quoted from help alignment. Again, something I agree with. None of this has disproven my point, other than your opinions that I disagree with. Here's why: Society makes Laws. But there are many Laws abounding in Thera today. There are the laws of the Arbiters, the laws of the Imperials, and even the laws of Nature. Each God or Goddess has his own set of Laws governing what his followers should or should not do. You get confused and seem to think that "society"=the Arbiter Laws. This is probably not helped that by typing 'help laws' you get the Arbiter Laws. The reason for this isn't to say that the Arbiter Laws are the ones that hold sway as "the Law" but to help new/inexperienced understand why suddenly everything in the world is attacking them after they looted the pit. Society is the term here that is questionable. To an Imperial, Society is Imperial Citizens and the bloodoathed. The rest of Thera is simply a bunch of people who haven't sworn the Oath yet. This is why they are ok, roleplay-wise, to kill people in town. They aren't ok to do this wantonly (read the Imperial Laws and you'll see what I'm talking about) but when it is required, they are allowed. To a Paladin, Society can be those who follow the same God, or just those who follow the Light. The key here is that anyone Lawful should at least RESPECT the other laws in the land. Obey? Not always, but when they can. I didn't mean for this to be a flame, so please don't take it as one. However, your quotes from the help files really don't make any points in your favor, though that's what you seem to want people to believe.
> Being Lawful is NOT following _any_ code of aws or honor etc. A Lawful ethos, as explained below, means following Arbiter Law (as in help law) at all times. Maran Paladins are NOT paladins if they break arbiter law.
> everything occurs in life because of a reason. "A place for everything and
> everything in its place" might be a typical catch phrase used by a lawful
> person for they believe that structure and a precise accounting for all
> things is needed to accomplish whatever goals they have in mind. Society
> needs to have laws and order to be able to properly plan and to have people
> act in concerted effort at whatever the controlling person's desire is.
> They believe there is a prescribed method to accomplish all tasks and always
> obey the LAWS.
> can make life better for the majority of the people. To ensure
> the quality of life, laws must be created and obeyed. When
> people respect the laws, and try to help each other, society as
> whole prospers.