Posted by Diarmuid on October 13, 1999 at 02:15:31:
In Reply to: Re: Masters vs Battle posted by Domenias on October 13, 1999 at 01:53:28:
Not to put too fine a point on it, but: you don't have a clue what you are talking about. That's absurd and by definition means things are not balanced. It means that one invoker cannot fight one rager. It means that bloodthirsting ragers, as I have said before, can render an entire class impotent. No class should need to rely on another class to be able to do something to their foe. (Except healers) And let's talk about this still being able to do shit without the orb as opposed to not being able to do anything without the head. I had 560 hp natural. And that's with alot of trains and more than most mages. But fine. Do you know how to get black rods? Do you have a fucking clue how to get the various preparations you talk about? It's not so easy, alone, without powers. Instead of saying I should play a rager -- which I had, when we couldn't spellbane area spells, when we couldn't see what spells are affecting masters, when we weren't hasted, etc -- you should play a mage invoker and then come talk to me. You say battle will never be more than their guild, their cabal and their equ. That's a total and complete lie. Try talking to the rest of your cabal that has Septach or whoever summon people to them at the golem. And lets forget that and say you are right. It's the same damn thing for everybody, pal. Scrolls, staves, all that, it gets spellbaned just like everything else. I don't really see what you are talking about. Yeah, I can use wands, I can use a charmie. You dodge, you can hit four times per round per weapon. That is your guild skills, the others are mine. The point is, what your cabal gives you is unbalancing and wrong because it makes my guild impotent. Next time you want to insult me, get a clue on what I've done or not done. You play an invoker and fight berserker ragers, etc, and come out winning and not having any trouble, I'll buy you dinner and bow down to you. Until then, shut the hell up. Diarmuid P.S. I don't think you will do that, however, for two reasons. I don't think you can, and I think, as I said in my farewell, that in a while the imms will change things and it won't be the same as it is now, making all this moot -- and proving me right in the end. > I'm sorry, but regardless what you may think, Masters still have the upper hand. There is absolutely nothing more scary than a fast, prepared, intelligent, and RESOURCEFUL Master. Battle will never be more than their guild skills, cabal powers, and equipment they're wearing (and an occasional bard song). A Master can use charmies, countless wands, staves, potions, scrolls, and any other class they can convince to help them. And the best thing is, you can still use all of this without your cabal item. Have you ever played a Rager when they don't have the head? Do you have any idea how easy it is to die? You sneeze too loud, *POOF* Dead. I've played Masters before, I know it isn't easy without the orb, but you still have access to nearly every means of survival, protection, and additional help. I am dumbfounded at the number of Masters that don't even bother to fly these days. You complain that as an invoker there's nothing you can do against bloodthirsty Battle. How about use your brain and class to its best of its ability instead of crying when you die spamming "c geyser"? You don't want to put out the effort to make your character tougher, fine. But quit bitching. When you try every possiblity in your power to win, and still always lose, that is when you can rant and rave. > Dom, Traveller from the Land of Hard Times > > > P.S Diarmuid = Graatch
It's not worth it anymore to rehash this, but as for your direct commentary, I tried every single invoker spell -- and that's more than fifty -- when fighting ragers. Every one. At hero. From wall of fire to lightning bolt to dispel to pillar to geyser to engulf to cone to iceshards to iceneedles, etc, etc, etc. Every single one. I did not leave one out. Not one.
And again, everything you are saying comes down to this: Invokers can get friends to help them come fight ragers.
> > [ 38] Diarmuid: Farewell
> > Wed Oct 13 01:00:22 1999
> > To: master battle sylvan entropy arbiter empire dawn troupe
> > When I rolled Diarmuid up there were pretty much no masters around and the
> > Orb was never theirs.
> > And this was, of course, before the ragers got the exponential power increase
> > they have now -- just goes to show they didn't need all this extra power.
> > So, I thought it would be fun to play the underdog again, see if I could
> > rally masters back.
> > I think I did that.
> > Having played an invoker quite a while ago, I wanted to see what it was like
> > now.
> > Well, 2/3 of the ragers can be totally and completely immune to invoker
> > powers. Berserkers just spellbane them all and defenders just dodge them,
> > it's like they aren't even in the room.
> > I'm not going to take up everyone's time going over why the rager powers are
> > unbalanced, overpowered, wrong, etc. In a few months they will be changed and
> > I will be proven right, but everyone will have forgotten.
> > Instead, you all get upset at me for saying what is obvious, for pointing out
> > things that are wrong -- like the fact that the sectleader powers are wrong,
> > that it is not a good way to attempt to promote roleplaying.
> > Like that agorinth's powers worked when the codex was down, and agorinth
> > laughed saying he was supposed to have them all the time.
> > When, of course, I know, and the imms know, that is not the case. And yes, it
> > is going to be changed, it is just a difficult coding problem.
> > In any event, it's not fun when an entire class can be made totally useless
> > and powerless by a single power of another cabal.
> > Remember, balance means any individual class should be able to fight any
> > other person. Harder for some, easier for some, but everyone should be able
> > to fight everyone, and hurt everyone, somehow.
> > Except healers, of course.
> > But that's no longer the case. Invokers cannot take advantage of the supposed
> > drawback of area spellbane, that the are bloodthirsting. We cant summon them.
> > We cant summon mobs. An invoker casts and is hit three or four times, for
> > free.
> > So other than going back to hell, and exploring two or three areas, I did
> > pretty much everything I wanted.
> > Now, it's living day to day, and that's no longer worthwhile.
> > When the pinnacle of years of study of a magic -- geyser, pillar of the gods,
> > etc -- do MASSACRE or even lower case damage, on an arail who is vuln to
> > them, something is wrong.
> > Sure, everyone complained that mages were too powerful a year ago. But now it
> > is the other extreme, especially given the massive increase to powers of the
> > prime enemy of the Tower, the battleragers.
> > So, I bid you farewell. And many of you accused me of whining. You don't
> > understand the term. I died lots -- alot -- and said nothing. Only when
> > people didn't play their roles, or a bug, or game imbalance, did I speak.
> > Lastly, I envisioned Diarmuid to be an absentminded professor type, who was
> > brittish in mannerism.
> > To all the groups I ranked with, sorry for making you wait while I "read."
> > Diarmuid