Posted by SphereMaker(IMM) on November 1, 2000 at 14:17:23:
In Reply to: You just may.... posted by The Arcane(Off-Duty) on November 1, 2000 at 12:49:53:
> I see this (this log, this thread, this post, whatever) as an example of so much of what is wrong with CF these days. You're disgruntled. We understand that; I think we've > The problem here is that you speak of a bottom line as though it were something scientific, something absolute by which all controversy here could be settled. No, I'm not. I'm saying people are arguing about the > Contribution is awfully subjective. Yep, that's why we have 6 IMPs deciding by committee > [snipped explanation of what a personality conflict is] Personality conflicts, although they seem unfair, are > You admit it yourself, he wasn't dismissed because he passed around copies of the area docs like Girl Scout cookies, Actually, it's my understanding this did occur. > [snipped "he contributed" opinion] The staff disagrees with you. You said yourself it's > How many heroimms reach 52 and then are dismissed (rather then leave of their own Probably a good number. Which is worse, to never give > Add up these facts, and you have your explanation for the disgruntlement that is festering here. Other than a handful of people, I don't know who these > Jaldean is very credible in this situation... he reacted calmly and basically explained what was frustrating him. In that situation, he knew he was getting denied. He wasn't trying to argue his way out of it... he was honestly trying to understand what he'd done wrong. I'm not defending or attacking Jaldean's behavior > So you're implying he sucked, and that Pico did a nice job of being friendly about it? Jaldean didn't suck. Explained above. > The argument being made here is that this system of "monitoring" appears to have clearly failed, You're certainly entitled to that opinion. > Does it really matter what the players think? It doesn't seem to. In terms of how the staff is run internally? No, > Now, obviously I'm not for a moment arguing that we should conduct imm staff decisions by popular majority vote or some such nonsense, but in cases such as these, where the sole question up for debate is "Has he contributed to improving the mud for the players?" it's narrow-minded to exclude feedback to the contrary. Feedback is either part of the process or it isn't > A quote from Jaldean: 'And I'm not sure what difference it makes, but I'm not going to become an anti-immortal or anything, and I certainly wont speak of any information that was immortal-only to anyone else.' The quote I refer to is this: "Sharing immortal-only > As an aside, do you realize how ridiculously immature and asinine continuing your Graatch-bashing makes you look? I'm ok with that. Youth is wasted on the young. I > You speak of "professionalism" in one sentence, and then wallow in sickening immaturity in the next. I was speaking of loyalty and honoring commitments. > Maybe the only way you got by as a schoolboy was to occasionally stumble upon something others found amusing and repeat it endlessly to simulate a sense of acceptance? You really want me to lash out with the stories of > [snipped tripe about the LLC], but why the insistence on applying a corporate ethic to this free source of entertainment? You're a smart guy, you can't figure that out? Oh, I'll leave that as an exercise for the reader. > [stuff not even worth responding to]
understood that for a while. What I don't understand
is why you're still here bitching about it. I think
the basic difference between the vision the current
Immortal staff has for the game and what you want it
to be are so different that you're never going to be
happy playing it. Am I wrong? What if you hated
graphical MUDs and we suddenly switched over to
graphics; would you keep coming to the CF forum and
post about how unhappy you were with the graphics or
would you go find something else to do? I'm not saying
this in a spirit of "the CF staff doesn't care about
what the players think". But there are going to be
times where we disagree even after having heard your
opinions and you can either accept it or go do some-
thing else. I mean, really - how does it serve you to
keep coming back and complaining about it?
wrong thing. The argument over ethics was pointless
since he wasn't dismissed for ethical reasons.
whether or not someone is contributing or not. Is
it perfect? No. I think we have some low level
immortals that don't contribute much but are still
around anyway. But 6 voices work better than one in
that it helps prevent some of the problems you later
describe.
a big part of the real world. I agree it stinks that
some people get better treatment than others. And I'll
give you a hint about what working in the corporate
world is like, since you're still in school: it's
about teams and it's about relationships with others. Either you function well on a team (and as a result
you get rewarded) or you don't. Yes, it's very
subjective. Yes, it smacks of being unfair. And yet,
ultimately that's what it's about. Most of us on the
staff are professional engineers and that's the world
we know and that's the world that works for us. You
can choose to disagree, you can make suggestions on
what you'd rather see, but that's currently the way
it is.
Whether that's true or not, I can't personally say.
As I said in my post, there are potentially other
reasons why contribution might be looked at more
closely.
subjective. I had very little interaction with him
personally (I did for a while as a mortal way back
when, I guess), so I can't even comment. And I wasn't
referring to Jaldean with my "you suck" comment (note
that I said after that, I don't even know the guy), I
was merely saying I thought Pico handled it well. We
have handled things a lot worse in the past.
> volition)?
anyone a chance and hope to pick a very few select
mortals to immort or to open up the window and give
a broader range of people a chance? There are 37
people on staff at this point; I don't think we have
a problem with dismissing too many people.
masses are that you're talking about. And people like
yourself and Matraien are disgruntled about the game
in general and appear to be looking for things to
argue about.
during his dismissal. I will disagree with the
decision to post what would otherwise be considered
"confidential" material.
not really.
and it has nothing to do with being narrow minded.
Do whatever you want on "l33t mud" or whatever you
end up calling it, and I guarantee you I won't run
to your Forum and complain about how you're managing
it. Unless you're part of the staff (and you're not)
it's really none of your business.
discussions is grounds for dismissal, according to
an immortal helpfile. I had already been dismissed..."
Which, to me, implies that he now feels free to
discuss anything he wishes. I agree those two quotes
don't integrate well, and the only example I have of
him doing either, is posting an immortal-only
discussion. What else can I base that judgement on?
know you'd never resort to name calling.
Something that Graatch couldn't do, either.
your sexual performance issues or some jab about
failing the LSAT, don't you? Well, I'm above that,
so I won't. Either way, I understand your need to
achieve somewhere and although you became good
at some aspects of this game, I think your opinion of
yourself and your influence on our decisions has
become just a little too inflated. As for your
stalwart defense of Graatch (amazing that you don't
consider him immature in his mind-bogglingly bizarre
ranting), isn't he a big boy who can defend himself?
(hey, you opened the door)
that's right, CF is free -- for you. If you want to
contribute to it, you can, but look! There's no
obligation!