Posted by The Angel Gabriel on August 05, 1999 at 12:36:00:
Having started a few threads on some topics, I have read all the various responses and culled out a few things that seem to be the root of what most people are complaining/upset about. And I don't mean complain as in whine, I mean these are the things that people are seriously criticizing about how the mud has developped, where it is at, now, and things of that nature. So what follows are my thoughts and perhaps you might care to comment. First, as discussed in earlier posts, is the seeming shift from fights of two relatively similar sized parties (either one on one or two, or two/three against two/three, etc) into a groupkill phenomenon. The earlier threads discussed the relative moral strengths of these two positions, and how neither is necessarily morally superior. This thread, however, I would like to discuss the "mechanics" of it, and pehaps dispell a few misconceptions. Class abilities: this, most of all, is why the Immortals have not really engineered this trend to gang bang. And lets remember that most people believe the gangbang to be necessary when fighting a mage. The "gangbang" philosophy is not really for *all* pks, generally everyone complains that it applies mostly to non-mages trying to kill mages. So, that is the focus here. Starting with warriors and the specs, virtually every type of warrior, and after that assassins, thieves, etc were specifically given things with killing mages in mind. Rather than keep each class stagnant, the Immortals beefed up and gave new powers/skills/abilities to classes. In fact, they gave so many new skills to each of these classes that you can't really use them all in a fight and now the questions of tactics really means something. It used to be that you had only one or two choices, every round in a fight, of what to do. Now, you have five or six choices, and that choice of what skill/spell/ability/power to use is where the real new skill rests. But I digress. Anyway, the Immortals gave the classes all these new powers, and virtually every one of them were given ways of dealng with mages. Damage reduction: here is where the Immortals perhaps did not foresee quite so much difficulty with those that face a barrier/aura/shield protected mage. But this has been rectified in two ways already, due in large part to the playerbase complaining about it -- though by complaining I do *not* mean whining. I mean constructively commenting and giving concrete examples and suggestions. It was changed first when some of the wands were limited, making it no longer possible for a mage to carry around as many as he wants in his sack. And it was changed even more when the locations were changed, and placed in more difficult places. Because of this, mages are no longer going to be nearly as well protected, as a general rule, and the non-mage classes will be able to stand up to them more easily as a consequence, making the need for gangbanging, if there ever was one, far less. This is the second way that the decisions of the Immortals have not, in fact, pushed the game to gangbaning. Third, and lastly, is cabal politics. Generally, whether we like it or not, most of the better players, the "career" players, and those that get into enough situations that they can comment, are in cabals. Well, the biggest changes in the last year or so are the creation and rise of empire and sylvan, the loss of kinghts/creation of dawn, and the nature vs. magic institution. How, at all, have these affected the supposed push to gangbanging? I dont think they have at all, really. Cabals fight as groups when they can, they have always done so and always will. Obviously, they band together when they are attempting to take the item of an enemy, or when retaking their own. So the next question is whether they do so when simply living day to day. I don't think they do so more or less now than they did then. If it is not the mechanics of the mud which have caused the trend, it must be the playerbase. Which is what I believe. I believe people have become more and more addicted to winning, rather than playing. Say what you will -- power player, elites, all of you -- but this is the truth. The reality is, in my view, if enough people didnt like the gangbanging life, it wouldn't exist. Because when asked to join a group to go hunt or do something, the echo of Nancy Reagan would haunt the mud... "Just say No." But they dont. They say yes to the drug of winning. So that is the first issue, gangbanging.
Many of you are saying that the Immortals, in their decisions, have turned the game into this gangbang-friendly place, and that is the root, not the playing styles of the playerbase.
After some consideration, I disagree. The changes to the mud that have bearing on this, in my mind, are the changes to class abilities, damage reduction and cabal politics.
I don't think I would be giving too much away, since these are rather basic, so I will describe what I mean.
Pre-changes, warriors had bash and trip and lash to keep a mage both from casting, and from fleeing. Now, they have: cranial, legsweep,pincer, entwine, pummel, crushing, leveraged, misdirection, and that's just warriors. Assassins were given tigerclaw, and more than a few kicks that no only damage, but again, keep a mage both from casting and fleeing by stunning them. Thieves were given cheap=shot which further stuns and damages a mage. (And, which works no matter who stuns the mage first, so it does not necessarily rely on the thief tripping). In fact, the *type* of skills given to the non-mage classes were those that allow you to wear down a mage who is protected, because while you are doing your three or four attacks per round (or more, if you dual wield), you aren't taking much damage because the mage is stunned due to the skill you actively type in.
The changes to mages, on the other hand, did not change their *quality* of power, just their form. Mages, particulary invokers, have *always* been able to deal out alot of damage at every shot. Now, they do it with differently named spells. But the affect is the same. If they cast, they can hurt you, alot, and everyone around you. Before it was chained lightning, it was fireball. Now, it's pillar and its geyser. The names have changed, and yes, some of the power might be stronger or lesser, but the concept has remained the same. You get the idea.
So, the changes and additions -- generally the making more powerful of the classes -- has inhibited, rather than increased the game's focus on gangbangs. Before, the non-mage classes would have needed to do much more damage right off, because any mage with protective shield and fly was virtually immune to any stunning attacks and therefore was able to cast or flee at will. Now, you dont need a bunch of people to kill in the first round, you can keep the mage there and not casting all by yourself.
As an aside, I personally believe that a greater amount of damage reduction should be available to non-mages. The usual rationale for the way things are done is that warriors have more hit points and are able to deal out alot of damage with their weapons and skills, whereas mages get few hitpoints and can't deal out the kind of warrior-level damage every round or so like a warrior can. Unfortunately, in my view, this is no longer the case. With the constant increse in equ -- thera is expanding, not contracting, and more and more clothing means more and more equ in the mix for everyone to wear -- and roughly the same amount of players, that means in general that mages are going to have as many hit points as warriors. So now you have two players with roughly the same hitpoints (and in fact, often the mage has *more* hitpoints) and now the powerful invoker spells, the powerful shapeforms, the powerful zombies/vampiric touch/etc, the mages can, in fact do as much if not more damage as a warrior in a short period of time, meaning they are on just about the same footing. But into the mix comes all the wands/staves/scrolls. Especially wands, which only true mages can use. Mages can reduce their damage to nearly nothing -- barrior, aura, shield, invoker shields, stone skin, etc. Non-mages cannot get barrier at all. And for them, aura and shield and stone skin are much harder, rarer or come with negative sideaffects. And they cannot get invoker shields, at all.
I would not make it *easy* for warriors to get a bit more damage reduction, but I would make it *possible*. Of course, we do not know how the new limiting and hiding of the wands will play out, so any implementation of this will wait as we patiently see how things go.
Empire, of course, is the exception. But that is way empire is founded. I agree that the simple fact of the existence of the Empire cabal has created more gangbanging, as group tactics and heartless murder are at the heart of Empire. And this, in turn, means their enemies need to band together to stay safe. But if anything, that means it should be a group against a group, not a group against an individual. It is only a group against an individual when a person chooses to travel alone and forgoes their cabal friends to travel or do whatever. Obviously, when ranking for instance, they can't be in group twenty four hours a day, seven days a week, but the notion remains the same.
Also, the lack of knights has reduced the *institutionalized* concept of real one on one fights. But lets be honest, most knights didn't really adhere to that standard, so the *real*, *functional* loss to non-gang tactics is minimal.
No, in the end the very existence of empire does shift the focus a bit toward gangbanging, but not that much, given how people in turn group up to defend, making it group vs. group. And, given that the classes have each been given ways to fight almost every other class in some way or other (some not as well as others, obviously, but by definition each class will be strong in ways and weak in ways. If every class could easily defeat every other class, that would mean each class was in effect very similar to eachother and that would be boring, would it not?) I believe the mechanics of the mud have not, in general, been the cause of the trend toward gangbaning.
For instance, some would say that Savryn, for example, was an elite player, certainly elite in the playerkilling abilities. Savryn was perfectly happy to gangbang.
Name a big strong player and I will name you a time they fought with others and killed as part of a group.
EVERYONE does it. I think Hilllcroft was the last cador tattoo'd character, though I have not checked to be certain. Those that complain about the lack of one on one or more evenly spaced fights are the same people who partake in the group fighting. Because people like to win. People spend their free hours working to achieve something, and they don't want to lose it.
Of course, these same people will *also*, *in addition*, go out and fight alone when they want. But they dont do that exclusively, and they have no compunction in joining a group when it is offered them.
The second issue I hear alot about is mortal/immortal interaction. But having just looked back at this post I see it already unbearably long, so I will wait for another day for that.
That, then, is the first